john 10:16 - and i have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also i must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.. setting: jesus was talking to a blind man he had recently cured and the pharisees were listening in.
it sounds like he had a larger audience that likely included his apostles.so, who is "this fold" he was referring to and who are the "other sheep"?according to wts doctrine, the heavenly calling (covenant) had not been instituted yet.
we don't hear about that until the last supper.
But this is so simple!
I am was a good Jehovah's Witness. That means I aren't higherly educated. I ain't got no skills. But I was reading in John last night and came across this story and suddenly the "great crowd" explanation didn't fit in with the context of the "other sheep" comment.
If a mere highschool graduate like me can see this, how could the spirit directed sons of God not catch it ?
john 10:16 - and i have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also i must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.. setting: jesus was talking to a blind man he had recently cured and the pharisees were listening in.
it sounds like he had a larger audience that likely included his apostles.so, who is "this fold" he was referring to and who are the "other sheep"?according to wts doctrine, the heavenly calling (covenant) had not been instituted yet.
we don't hear about that until the last supper.
John 10:16 - “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.
Setting: Jesus was talking to a blind man he had recently cured and the Pharisees were listening in. It sounds like he had a larger audience that likely included his apostles. So, who is "this fold" he was referring to and who are the "other sheep"? According to WTS doctrine, the heavenly calling (covenant) had not been instituted yet. We don't hear about that until the last supper. So why would he be talking about an upper-class vs. lower-class of Christians just yet? And why would he be talking about it such a setting? Since Jesus was sent first to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Mathew 15:21-28), and since they were his audience at the time he said these things, wouldn't it make sense that they were the "fold" being referenced? Wouldn't it make sense that the "other sheep" are just non-Jews?
if we are to accept that intelligence plays no part in wether or not we become duped into a cult, then the same rule must apply to those who wake up and make an exit.. so why am i so special?
i had basically the same experiences as my family and i am the only one out.
i don't claim to be some towering intelect, but even if i were it shouldn't matter.
All your answers seem to mix well and have been helpful. Uhm, except for you, Barry. I hope you're wrong. LOL
I think I relate most with what Lozhasleft said: it seems that cults capitalize on individuals/couples who have a particular 'need' to belong?identify? I learned pretty early in life to be a bit of a loner and that it does no good to beat myself up trying to measure myself against others.
AllTimeJeff: Many JW's who don't believe stay in as a survival strategy. I think maybe a security blanket affect also. I feel the lure of that security blanket, just the comfort of what's familiar tugging at me. I miss people. I miss my family.
Thanks for your all your contributions.
if we are to accept that intelligence plays no part in wether or not we become duped into a cult, then the same rule must apply to those who wake up and make an exit.. so why am i so special?
i had basically the same experiences as my family and i am the only one out.
i don't claim to be some towering intelect, but even if i were it shouldn't matter.
KANSAS!
Nuff said.
if we are to accept that intelligence plays no part in wether or not we become duped into a cult, then the same rule must apply to those who wake up and make an exit.. so why am i so special?
i had basically the same experiences as my family and i am the only one out.
i don't claim to be some towering intelect, but even if i were it shouldn't matter.
If we are to accept that intelligence plays no part in wether or not we become duped into a cult, then the same rule must apply to those who wake up and make an exit.
So why am I so special? I had basically the same experiences as my family and I am the only one out. I don't claim to be some towering intelect, but even if I were it shouldn't matter. Right?
Is it all just time and unforeseen circumstance?
on examining the scriptural reasoning cited in the passage below, should our conscience allow us to invite people to be "observers" at a ritual which presents falsehoods as truth?.
the evening before jesus died, he instigated a new covenant which was to be celebrated with wine and unleavened bread.
(matthew 12:50) these scriptures reflect each other, for since christ is the son of god (mark 3:11, john 1:34) and we are sons of god as well, this would make us brothers to christ.
must read later
i am hoping i can do one in a year or two- any tips would be appreciated.
Long distance, as in for days and days? No.
But a buddy of mine and I hiked down the southern Kiabab trail of the grand canyon one time. Started out at 6:30a.m. with the intention of camping at the bottom and hiking back up the next day. We got down there, set up out little tent and the ranger came by asking us for our camping permit. We didn't know we were supposed to have one but we knew there was a ranger station nearby at the bottom.
"Can we get a permit over there?"
"No."
"Where can we get one?"
The guy just pointed up into the sky.
Oh, LAWD! It's a good thing I was only 14 and the buddy of mine was 19 or there would have been no way. We hiked back up the canyon, getting to the car around 11:30 that night. We drove an hour or so to find a hotel and died. The next morning, the pain... oh the pain. Everywhere! I hurt in places I didn't know I had.
i went to the nearby 7-eleven on my lunch break to get a fountain drink and i happened to bump into some people from my wifes congregation including brother hero and brother sidekick.
brother hero was the guy who conducted a bible study with me using the bible teach book (my god, i have been around the witnesses and former witnesses too much as i even know the cult speak and book name abbreviations).
during our study he began bringing over another brother from the congregation who i began referring to as brother sidekick.. i found out from my wife that brother sidekick is the son-in-law of one of the elders in that congregation.
bookmark
[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><!
[endif][if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-us</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>ja</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:enableopentypekerning /> <w:dontflipmirrorindents /> <w:overridetablestylehps /> <w:usefelayout /> </w:compatibility> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="--" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!
[endif][if gte mso 10]> <mce:style><!
Think of the changes with regards blood, higher education, family life, children, military service (alternative), voting, etc ....
Voting? This is new for me. Please elaborate.
on the surface these seem to contradict:.
john 3:17 - for god sent forth his son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.. .
5:22 - for the father judges no one at all, but he has committed all the judging to the son.... 5:27 - and he has given him authority to do judging, because son of man he is.. .
I knew there was an answer, I just couldn't come up with it last night. I appreciate everyone's time and comments. This helps a lot.
